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Grog Aftermath
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:02:00 -
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Because MMO companies just don't seem to learn.
Might be because they want to lose more subscriptions.
Basically it comes down to this, if you have content that people can join in with but do not have to join a group to do it then more people seem to be happier with that. Warhammer Online was a good example with their RvR (realm v's realm), yes I know it's a dead game now but it wasn't because of the RvR, but more because of the uneven realm populations.
Forcing people to group to do content just doesn't work because, there's a lot of players that won't join corps/guilds anymore for various reasons. So if content becomes more group orientated all it will do is push more people away from the game.
It's a sandbox, developers shouldn't try to push players into playing the way they want them to play.
As for those that keep saying it's an MMO you should have to group, you're still living in the stone age . MMO communities are much more varied these days. |

Grog Aftermath
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:12:00 -
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Ralph King-Griffin wrote:metalravenous wrote:
Because you I don't want to deal with other people?
then why are you playing the game that's famously driven by player interaction in literally every facet.
Driven yeah, but you don't have to group to play it. But if new content is all group orientated then those that don't group will just feel that their subscriptions are not wanted.
Plus it's not easy to group with this game, just finding a good corp is hard enough. Especially as corps in this game are so fussy and nosey. |

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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:26:00 -
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Grunanca wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote:Because MMO companies just don't seem to learn.
Might be because they want to lose more subscriptions.
Basically it comes down to this, if you have content that people can join in with but do not have to join a group to do it then more people seem to be happier with that. Warhammer Online was a good example with their RvR (realm v's realm), yes I know it's a dead game now but it wasn't because of the RvR, but more because of the uneven realm populations.
Forcing people to group to do content just doesn't work because, there's a lot of players that won't join corps/guilds anymore for various reasons. So if content becomes more group orientated all it will do is push more people away from the game.
It's a sandbox, developers shouldn't try to push players into playing the way they want them to play.
As for those that keep saying it's an MMO you should have to group, you're still living in the stone age . MMO communities are much more varied these days. And with all the solo games out there, why are these people thick skulled enough to play an MMO, where they cant do much alone, when they can be king of the world in some solo game. Seem to me they need to study the word MMO for a bit and find out what the 2 M's stand for... Why join a game and want to change it, just to annoy the people that already play and enjoy it, instead of just going with a solo game from the start?
Because AI's are too predictable, solo games feel empty.
People that solo in MMO's still interact with others they just don't join corps/guilds/gangs. Even having other people running around helps breath life into a game. There's a lot of solo MMO players around.
I solo most of the time, reasons being, been in player corps/guilds didn't like the way they run. Also when I play a game I don't want to have to play it the way someone else wants me to play or have someone following me around nearly all the time. Plus in groups you seem to spend so much wasted time just waiting for them to get organised. I don't even use voice software because of all the crap people speak, which I don't really want to listen to.
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:40:00 -
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metalravenous wrote:
I guess that is your opinion. I disagree. I find people in this game to be predictable in their back stabbing and why that is why I prefer a more solo experience.
That's a different matter.
It's a problem with EVE as backstabbing seems to be a way of life here. There's more paranoia in this game because of it.
EVE doesn't exactly foster a good community spirit, but I guess it's not designed to.
But AI's are certainly more predictable than people, even people that you think are predictable can surprise you sometimes. |

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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:49:00 -
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Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: EVE doesn't exactly foster a good community spirit, but I guess it's not designed to.
You are so wide of the mark with this you aren't even wrong.
I'm talking about the community as a whole, not individual alliances. |

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Posted - 2014.08.27 12:38:00 -
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Ramona McCandless wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:EVE is pay to win after all. I understand these words individually, but in this order they make no sense
I'd say
PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.
Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.
Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.
They're the only ones I can think of though. |

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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:10:00 -
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Ramona McCandless wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:EVE is pay to win after all. I understand these words individually, but in this order they make no sense I'd say PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained. Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win. Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts. They're the only ones I can think of though. Im still having difficulty with this "win" concept you are talking about
Don't see why that should be.
We don't have gold ammo, but even if we did it wouldn't mean someone using gold ammo would automatically win a fight.
Those I listed previously are ways that give in-game advantages by using external funds.
The only way to win an MMO is to fulfil your own personal goals.
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Posted - 2014.08.28 02:53:00 -
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Tippia wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:EvE is a PvP game. GǪand no amount of paying for it lets you win over the other player. Well, maybe if you count paying him off, but I think he'll call that a win on his end rather than on yours. Quote:Getting out there in your ship fighting other people's ships (one of the ways to PvP in EvE) is considered practice/experience. Under normal circumstances, a person gets better the more they practice (the more experience they gain).
Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night. They spend the entire time practicing because they just buy plex and sell it in game for the isk they need to afford practicing. Person B practices only 1 hour a night because the other 2 hours is spent grinding isk to afford practicing.
Someone being able to practice 3 hours a night has an absolute advantage over someone who is only able to practice 1 hour a night.
Therefore person A was able to buy an advantage. But it wasn't an advantage he bought. It's an advantage he spent time on. What you're describing is the exact opposite of P2W and the very reason why EVE isn't a P2W game. PLEX is not even remotely a requirement for what you describe GÇö that part is pure nonsense. What you need is time, not ISK. Selling PLEX does not let you skip over the time investment needed to win. If anything, you are giving away time by using PLEX the way you're describing: you're giving other people time that they can use on improving rather than doing it yourself. Quote:The "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is a complete strawman That's a good reason why you shouldn't try to use it as an argument, then. vOv
Bolded and underlined the relevant part.
So you say no advantage has been purchased.
Two new players
Player 1 just has 1 account and doesn't buy PLEX.
Player 2 buys an additional account, on that second account he buys a 25 Million sp character from the bazaar. He also buys 6 PLEX.
So Tippia, you're saying Player 2 has no advantage over player one?
The fact is player 2 has a huge advantage over player 1.
Doesn't mean he's going to kill a 10 year old character. But then that would be the same with gold ammo, just because someone has gold ammo doesn't mean they would necessarily win, but people still see that as pay-to-win. |

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Posted - 2014.08.28 04:33:00 -
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Tippia wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote:So you say no advantage has been purchased.
Two new players Player 1 just has 1 account and doesn't buy PLEX. Player 2 buys an additional account, on that second account he buys a 25 Million sp character from the bazaar. He also buys 6 PLEX.
So Tippia, you're saying Player 2 has no advantage over player one? None that come simply from paying for it, no.
Well I disagree with you there.
A second account you would pay a subscription for (new player).
PLEX you would buy, you have to sell them on the in-game market to convert them to isk (which isn't hard to do) , but you still paid for them.
A character from the character bazaar, would come from isk generated by additional PLEX.
All 3 are being purchased via additional funds to the first subscription. |

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Posted - 2014.08.28 04:59:00 -
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Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: All 3 are being purchased via additional funds to the first subscription.
I don't care how many skillpoints you have in game, it's knowledge that makes a winner and a loser in EVE Online. Someone buying a character in their first week won't help them at all if they don't know what to do with it.
So ok, from what you're saying gold ammo wouldn't be pay-to-win either. After all you're saying it's not what you use it's how you use it.
I don't agree with you on that of course in respect to what is pay-to-win. But yeah, experience does count.
Although a player with a character with 25 million sp who has been playing for a week is going to do well against another character that's been playing for a week even with no experience. |

Grog Aftermath
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Posted - 2014.08.28 05:14:00 -
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Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Grog Aftermath wrote: So ok, from what you're saying gold ammo wouldn't be pay-to-win either. After all you're saying it's not what you use it's how you use it.
You're making a category error so big, that I am having trouble believing that you aren't just trolling. Quote: Although a player with a character with 25 million sp who has been playing for a week is going to do well against another character that's been playing for a week even with no experience.
And is going to get his ass handed to him by a player who has played through all 12.5 million of his own skillpoints, let alone against a veteran.
No not trolling.
Although after relooking at the title of this thread, this thread has become derailed with what is and what isn't pay-to-win.
So maybe we should stop there. |
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